05-21-2019, 12:18 AM (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 12:20 AM by Lost_N_BIOS.)
First, yes, you can try reading the chips with the board power connected (but not powered on).
But wait, you have socketed BIOS so this is not the way to do it. The first image is the BIOS, and only that image/chip is a BIOS.
You need to extract that chip and insert into programmer, pin one on the chip is on the "divot" side, so make sure that goes into programmer properly. Normally you need a U-Type flat IC puller, like this, to extract those chips - https://www.ebay.com/itm/123167465408
However, you can carefully extract with something flat and hard, plastic like a ink pen cap, or small screwdriver with plastic on the tip (any thin rubber/plastic you can hold there). The chip is made of ceramic, so you have to be careful not to crack it, or scratch it too badly. Also, the BIOS legs are VERY Fragile, easily bend, so be extremely careful as you near getting it out or you'll pop it sideways and bend the legs all crazy
Take something, and wiggle one side up little, then other, then back, etc back and forth tiny bit at a time until you can get it out. As you move it up more and more, be more and more careful with the wiggling and switching sides, once it's almost out or halfway the leg bending becomes more and more possible. Once it's halfway out, you can slide a ribbon, or wire under it, anything thin and small enough width to fit under there and pull up from both sides at once and it'll pop up. Use even pressure and pull straight up.
Then when you go to put it in your programmer, only push it halfway down, so it's easier to get out once you are done. In the guide I linked above, you connect your chip in the same way and same location as the guide is showing for the cable, only you use chip instead. Once you plug chip in, and connect to USB, feel the chip, if it gets super hot in an instant (second or two this will happen), pull it out and put it in other way (it's backwards )
Back on the original post you made, do you have the other board to confirm your memory works on it? If not, how are you assuming it's BIOS, or that board works with your memory? Did you install x64 OS yet?
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05-21-2019, 10:58 AM (This post was last modified: 05-21-2019, 10:59 AM by DIYThings.)
(05-21-2019, 12:18 AM)Lost_N_BIOS Wrote: First, yes, you can try reading the chips with the board power connected (but not powered on).
But wait, you have socketed BIOS so this is not the way to do it. The first image is the BIOS, and only that image/chip is a BIOS.
You need to extract that chip and insert into programmer, pin one on the chip is on the "divot" side, so make sure that goes into programmer properly. Normally you need a U-Type flat IC puller, like this, to extract those chips - https://www.ebay.com/itm/123167465408
However, you can carefully extract with something flat and hard, plastic like a ink pen cap, or small screwdriver with plastic on the tip (any thin rubber/plastic you can hold there). The chip is made of ceramic, so you have to be careful not to crack it, or scratch it too badly. Also, the BIOS legs are VERY Fragile, easily bend, so be extremely careful as you near getting it out or you'll pop it sideways and bend the legs all crazy
Take something, and wiggle one side up little, then other, then back, etc back and forth tiny bit at a time until you can get it out. As you move it up more and more, be more and more careful with the wiggling and switching sides, once it's almost out or halfway the leg bending becomes more and more possible. Once it's halfway out, you can slide a ribbon, or wire under it, anything thin and small enough width to fit under there and pull up from both sides at once and it'll pop up. Use even pressure and pull straight up.
Then when you go to put it in your programmer, only push it halfway down, so it's easier to get out once you are done. In the guide I linked above, you connect your chip in the same way and same location as the guide is showing for the cable, only you use chip instead. Once you plug chip in, and connect to USB, feel the chip, if it gets super hot in an instant (second or two this will happen), pull it out and put it in other way (it's backwards )
Back on the original post you made, do you have the other board to confirm your memory works on it? If not, how are you assuming it's BIOS, or that board works with your memory? Did you install x64 OS yet?
Well that was easy, thanks for the help. Here's the bios from the chip reader. I don't have the other board currently, but I've had one quite a long time ago and it was compatible with the same samsung modules as this one has been. I've got an install of Windows 10 Home all ready to go on it so there's no problem there. Let me know if you need anything else!
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I think the issue may be the TM is missing memory remap feature, and it's also missing a lot of other settings too (unrelated)
I can first update all CPU microcodes and see if that helps, possibly, but I doubt it, I think you need that remap setting and it's missing not hidden from you.
Since you have programmer, you can just program the other BIOS into the TM board, if the physical layout (PCI/PCIE lanes, I/O panel etc) is the same then it should work OK. These BIOS are so old, I can't easily do the BIOS swapping stuff I mentioned previously, well I can but I can't be sure it will work for you until you test. Probably just as easy for you to program in the other BIOS instead of a test BIOS that I swap stuff in that may not work and leave you having to program again.
Your provided dump is OK, so you can safely write anything you want to the chip and then if necessary program back the OG BIOS.
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(05-23-2019, 10:25 AM)Lost_N_BIOS Wrote: So you installed x64 and still have memory issue?
I think the issue may be the TM is missing memory remap feature, and it's also missing a lot of other settings too (unrelated)
I can first update all CPU microcodes and see if that helps, possibly, but I doubt it, I think you need that remap setting and it's missing not hidden from you.
Since you have programmer, you can just program the other BIOS into the TM board, if the physical layout (PCI/PCIE lanes, I/O panel etc) is the same then it should work OK. These BIOS are so old, I can't easily do the BIOS swapping stuff I mentioned previously, well I can but I can't be sure it will work for you until you test. Probably just as easy for you to program in the other BIOS instead of a test BIOS that I swap stuff in that may not work and leave you having to program again.
Your provided dump is OK, so you can safely write anything you want to the chip and then if necessary program back the OG BIOS.
Gotcha, I'll go ahead and give the other bios a try and see what happens. Yeah--Its strange because this system came with a 64-bit install of Vista on it, no idea why they would have designed it this way. I assume the memory remap feature is a software side problem and not a hardware problem with the north or southbridge seeing as both boards have identical nb/sb, right? The I/o and PCI/PCIE lanes line up, so that should be clear, but the TM ironically has more audio ports on the I/O and one extra PCI slot. I don't mind if those don't work so long as I can get audio at least out of a pci card. I'll report back with whatever happens
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05-23-2019, 01:49 PM (This post was last modified: 05-23-2019, 01:50 PM by DIYThings.)
Alright, the straight up flash worked perfectly fine, everything posts with 2gb sticks (overclocking options are present but grayed out), but I'm still having trouble getting 4gb dimms to post. I'm going to buy some low density 4gb ram since it seems to play nicer with these LGA 775 boards--here's the current bios i'm using, let me know if you see anything that could either be causing the problem or would allow for unlocking that overclock multiplier.
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Sorry to necro this thread back from the dead, I've just managed to fool around with the computer some more since the direct flash got the motherboard working and I've noticed two strange issues once I took the case side off. The most important one is that the CPU fan spins up and runs absolutely fine when booting, or in the bios, and can even be adjusted for fan curve in the PWM settings, but once in windows it slowly stops regardless of what I'm doing with it. The computer runs absolutely fine still, but obviously the cpu gets exceedingly hot. In addition: I've managed to get 6 GB of ram working, however when I install both 4GB sticks, the computer still hates it, both stick work individually so I know its not a compatibility issue (same speed and set of ram).
Because of this I'd assume it likely needs a slight bios mod to merge in some data from the old bios? Thanks for all your help btw, incredible that this has made it this far.
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Some memory just may not be compatible, nothing you can do about that except purchase memory on the QVL list, or google around for known working 4GB modules and this motherboard. Since the 4GB sticks you have work one at a time, it could be the density or the sticks themselves still not fully compatible, that's could cause both to not work at same time but one at a time OK
Fan stopping may be normal, if you've got it set to some slow speed at a lower temp. Does it ramp back up if you put it under a heavy test load once you see it's stopped? If not, then fan might be faulty, try another, as quick test you can connect any fan there and see how it acts.
Intel says G41 can use 8GB DDR2, or 4GB DDR3, other memory compatibility sites say 2x4GB no matter what type and Intel has often been known to incorrectly lay down spec info. You're using 6GB (DDR3?) now, so I still think there is some compatibility or density issue.
Further discussion here about G41 and memory amounts - https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/Vostro-230-Memory-RAM-upgrade-4GB-max-True-Why/td-p/3902255
Kingston rep saying, at that time, 4GB didn't work due to cmpatibility with G41 too, so it may be some can work, some can't, some might with one stick, might not with both etc, like you've already found out
https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1437538-i-expected-this-new-memory-to-work
As for your last comment, I don't know how/why you come to that conclusion? What makes you think something in the old BIOS needs to go into the new BIOS, and why?
Show me some BIOS images of what's grayed out and I can fix that for you probably. And you're welcome!
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06-12-2019, 05:33 PM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2019, 05:35 PM by DIYThings.)
(06-10-2019, 10:32 PM)Lost_N_BIOS Wrote: Some memory just may not be compatible, nothing you can do about that except purchase memory on the QVL list, or google around for known working 4GB modules and this motherboard. Since the 4GB sticks you have work one at a time, it could be the density or the sticks themselves still not fully compatible, that's could cause both to not work at same time but one at a time OK
Fan stopping may be normal, if you've got it set to some slow speed at a lower temp. Does it ramp back up if you put it under a heavy test load once you see it's stopped? If not, then fan might be faulty, try another, as quick test you can connect any fan there and see how it acts.
Intel says G41 can use 8GB DDR2, or 4GB DDR3, other memory compatibility sites say 2x4GB no matter what type and Intel has often been known to incorrectly lay down spec info. You're using 6GB (DDR3?) now, so I still think there is some compatibility or density issue.
Further discussion here about G41 and memory amounts - https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/Vostro-230-Memory-RAM-upgrade-4GB-max-True-Why/td-p/3902255
Kingston rep saying, at that time, 4GB didn't work due to cmpatibility with G41 too, so it may be some can work, some can't, some might with one stick, might not with both etc, like you've already found out
https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1437538-i-expected-this-new-memory-to-work
As for your last comment, I don't know how/why you come to that conclusion? What makes you think something in the old BIOS needs to go into the new BIOS, and why?
Show me some BIOS images of what's grayed out and I can fix that for you probably. And you're welcome!
Yep, ironically that's what I went with, I bought a set of 8GB low-density DDR3-1066 on the QVL list, and they work great individually, just not in tandem for some reason. I'm having no problems with the 6GB mix of sticks for some reason, but indeed they are of different densities. It appears the motherboard is extremely temperamental with a 4GB stick being in Slot A, but has no problem with a 4GB stick being in Slot B. I'm wondering if the G41-M7 bios may be before a time when G41 boards were more finely programmed and ironed out to work with 8GB, hence why 6GB might be a cap here. If it ends up being stuck at a maximum of 6GB that's perfectly fine, my real concern is with the Smart Fan settings on the motherboard controlling the CPU fan.
Since flashing the new bios on the board, the CPU fan would power-on full voltage upon boot like normal, but then gradually come to a stop, regardless of entering Windows or the Bios. I fooled around with turning Smart Fan off and sure enough, the CPU fan stays on, but at 100% PWM so it's not pleasant to say the least. I tried to then have the program Speed Fan auto throttle down the CPU fan to a ceiling of 75% PWM but it appears to not work. I'm wondering if somehow the Smart Fan settings for the new bios aren't communicating with PWM 1 on the board properly (which is why I assumed that maybe some Bios tweaking would be needed). I've fooled around with trying to manually adjust the Smart Fan settings, but I honestly don't have the slightest idea what I'm doing with them or how it works with an AMI bios this old. If you are literate in Smart Fan I'll throw up a picture of the settings. Worst comes to worse I could rig it up with a splitter so that the cpu runs off the same fan header as the case exhaust fan, since that one seems to respond to auto PWM, but I'd obviously like to try and get the two independent from each other if possible.
As for missing settings, all that seems to be missing is the overclocking options under 'Advanced Settings' in the CPU config section are of course grayed out. If this thing is going to be running lean and ice cold at 27C due to insane CPU fan speeds, I may as well gently boost it up from 2.8 to 3 Ghz so enabling that would be fantastic. I'll report back with the results from the CMD prompt and some Bios pictures in a bit.
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You may be correct about the memory, not being fully 4GB trained as of yet on G41, before they stopped making these BIOS.
I hear you on the fan, so nothing you tried works, did you try above and below 75% too? Maybe run CPU fan on the other header directly by itself, and connect some other fan to CPU, so you don't have to use a splitter and it still thinks CPU fan is going. This could be due to boards are not 100% exactly the same, or even if they are some trace or layout to the fans internally is different?
YOu did flash in the M7 BIOS correct? Is that what's dumped at post #16?
I don't see >>> 'Advanced Settings' in the CPU config section. What is the exact page you are looking at, I don't see a CPU Config section in this BIOS. Also, show me an image of this page, so I can see if any settings need to be made visible that are missing.
Also, back on fans, can you see all those options in your fan control area?
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so enabling that would be fantastic. I'll report back with the results from the CMD prompt and some Bios pictures in a bit.
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