DELL M18X A03 BIOS THROTTLE REMOVAL GTX580M SLI

[AHMED HOSSAM]

Hi All ,

First , i`m sorry for John`s notebook as it was bricked by my modified bios but you should understand how the bios was modified :-

i have extracted the EC FW then read the Data sheet and found this page :-



This is clearly visible that i should modify these values to change fan speeds ( page 84 in the data sheet )
i had modified these values in the given example ( i didn`t make any calculations and the mod was in a given example , just read p84 and you will find what i mean ) then said that i need someone to test .
i knew that ECFW mod is dangerous but when John said that he will try it , i didn`t worry as he had mentioned in previous replies in NBR that he has got full warranty for his notebook..............and i knew that full warranty covers all accidental problems . so , i didn`t say to him not to try the bios as he can easily change the mobo .

This means that i only modified the values written in the example in the Datasheet however , it bricked your notebook ............ so i think i haven`t made anything wrong deliberate............. i just followed the steps written in the datasheet .

-Mumak has got far more information than me and he told me ( after John flashed the bios ) that this was wrong as i shouldn`t have modified these values and i should have disassembled the EC FW to find the correct registers .................. Mumak has disassembled many fw before and sure he is the right one who will do this ............... i will watch you Mumak to learn

-Camilo , i think that modifying DSDT will not fix this.................this DSDT hasn`t got enough values and info. to edit.............it doesn`t contain any THERMAL ZONE codes ,, doesn`t have the pnp0b0c device identified inside DSDT ( fan device ) ,, doesn`t contain any fan speeds configurations ,, thermal options are only for cpu ,, ECRAM region has got information about if the fans are on or off and other options will not help ( i have checked it before and read some sections in the ACPI datasheet and i can confirm that this DSDT has no options to edit for fan speed or thermal zones ).................... you should read the ECFW datasheet and watch Mumak with me to learn from him

-John , i think after you read this post , you will knew that it`s 100% sure that i didn`t deliberate bricking your notebook and i just followed steps in the datasheet.............and i`m sorry that your notebook was bricked .......... i`m sure warranty will replace it for free as i read in previous posts in NBR that you have full warranty and i faced this problem before with DELL ( replacing mobo because of bricked bioschip ) and they have no problem replacing it...........just tell them you have flashed their stock bios then power was cut .
also , you shouldn`t flash any modified EC FW after this but i trust Mumak as he is the correct one to do this


Now , i have done all my best in this and i will just watch Mumak and learn from him

[Mumak]

I'm still working on the EC FW disasm. IDA is a great tool, but some customizations for a particular 8051 controller or maybe enhancements for recognizing code switches and similar compiler-specifics would be great.. does anyone have experience with this?

[Mumak]

Just a small note I just found by dissecting the EC FW... When setting custom fan speed (via HWiNFO32/64) the EC accepts max of 5900 RPM. If the requested value is higher, then it's capped at 5900 RPM.

Here a small excerpt for advanced ones (including my comments)

[barcode]

Just a small note I just found by dissecting the EC FW... When setting custom fan speed (via HWiNFO32/64) the EC accepts max of 5900 RPM. If the requested value is higher, then it's capped at 5900 RPM.

Here a small excerpt for advanced ones (including my comments)

After a few testing runs it would seem the gpu throttle is not temp related but more power related.

I have repasted my gpu in the same room temp and my temp's have dropped from 78 stock max to now 68 stock max with new repaste job and dont see why it should still be throttling...

Also if you run the M18X in battery mode no power cord plug in it throttles all the way from start to finish in 3dvantage and this is on standard clock 620mhz..

Just thought id share!

[Mumak]

I don't think the system measures GPU current in order to determine the GPU power consumption. And if it's not temperature related, then it must be something different.
Sorry, but I have very few information about this GPU throttling issue, can you please explain more precisely?
- So on AC the GPU throttling occurs only during high load and on battery all the time?
- On which GPU models does this issue occur?
- How do you know that it's throttling, based on the GPU clock? If yes, what are the clock values observed?

[barcode]

I don't think the system measures GPU current in order to determine the GPU power consumption. And if it's not temperature related, then it must be something different.
Sorry, but I have very few information about this GPU throttling issue, can you please explain more precisely?
- So on AC the GPU throttling occurs only during high load and on battery all the time?
- On which GPU models does this issue occur?
- How do you know that it's throttling, based on the GPU clock? If yes, what are the clock values observed?

Ok i'll try and explain it as best i can.

M18X SLI 580M
Stock run
When running 3dvantage at stock clocks gpu 620mhz memory 750mhz shader 1240mhz no throttle all good at stock volts min 0.80v to max 0.87v
Temp is at 68/69max

Overclocked run
When running 3dvantage at overclocked clocks this is the best stable clock i can get with no throttle as well 730mhz memory 801mhz shader 1460mhz again stock volts 0.80v to 0.87v
temp is at 71/72max


Anything over this stable overclock 730mhz i get glitches and artificates, so to stop this and push the card further i use a mod volt for the card and flash this which brings my volts from 0.80 to 0.92v allowing me to overclock further with no glitches or artifacts.

Thread for volts adjustments
http://www.mvktech.net/component/option,...itstart,0/

I can then do 800mhz no problem but experience throttle in 3dvantage.

Now when i say throttle it means my fps drop in 3dvantage from 80fps - 100fps to just under 10fps the temps are below the 75c.

Also when i run the same 3dvantage in standard configuration mean stock volts 0.87v and stock clocks 620mhz only using the battery i experience throttle meaning under 10fps from start to finish.

to answer your question
- So on AC the GPU throttling occurs only during high load and on battery all the time?
YES

- On which GPU models does this issue occur?
SLI NVIDIA GTX 580M

- How do you know that it's throttling, based on the GPU clock? If yes, what are the clock values observed?
From my own testing above and i've seen the same cards on a clevo branded model laptop max 860MHZ with no throttle experienced. Also other users with Dell 580m are experiencing this throttle playing games (thank god i havent yet)
Users withe the M17X have also experienced throttle with single 580m, but a bios mod released recently fited their problems and they now no longer suffer throttle.

Nvidia have released a statement about using vantage and throttle let me find it

http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienwar...ers-6.html

NVIDIA have implemented new power monitoring and power capping features on GTX 580 boards. Similar to our thermal protection mechanisms that protect the GPU and system from excessive heat generation, the new power monitoring and capping features help protect the graphics card and system from issues caused by excessive power draw.

Dedicated hardware circuitry on the GTX 5x0 graphics card performs real-time monitoring of current and voltage on each 12V rail (6-pin, 8-pin, and PCI-Express).
The graphics driver monitors the power levels and will dynamically adjust performance in certain stress applications such as Furmark and OCCT if power levels exceed the card’s spec.
Power monitoring adjusts performance only if power specs are exceeded AND if the application is one of the stress apps we have defined in our driver to monitor such as Furmark and OCCT.
So far we have not seen any real world games that are affected by power monitoring or need power throttling to stay within spec.
We restrict power monitoring only to stress apps, because we don’t want to limit customers who want to overclock games, and we believe the stress apps are the key apps where the graphics card can benefit from additional protection mechanisms.
We will enable power monitoring for older Furmark versions in future drivers. The 262.99 driver only identifies Furmark version 1.8. If other thermal stress apps are discovered, they will be added to the protection mechanism from time to time with driver updates.
We do not provide any end user ability to turn off power capping today.
The power limits for GTX 580 are set close to PCI Express specs for each 12V rail.
In this initial implementation, when power capping becomes active, clocks inside the chip are reduced by 50%. Many 3rd party tools have not yet been updated to show this fact, but we suspect updates will be coming to make the internal clock reductions more visible.

[Mumak]

Thanks for the explanation. Few more questions:
1. so you determine that it's throttling only based on performace? What happens to the clocks when it's throttling (are they showing the expected level, or reduced)? Or are there any other signs of throttling ?
2. if you don't raise the voltage (you get glitches) is the throttling occuring too ?

[barcode]

Thanks for the explanation. Few more questions:
1. so you determine that it's throttling only based on performace? What happens to the clocks when it's throttling (are they showing the expected level, or reduced)? Or are there any other signs of throttling ?
2. if you don't raise the voltage (you get glitches) is the throttling occuring too ?

1. I'm only seeing this on a performance level as when 3dvantage is running i cant see the actual ghz, but in furmark i can see the pyramid effect in temps.

Furmark is another graphic stress test max settings as you can see from my pic attached the pyramid effect up and down meaning full fps 41 and low fps 7.


2. Yes after a while tho


This is why i posted this thread cause the problem has been solved for the dell m17x users using the same cards there bios version A04 never had this throttle after in A05 is was there so it must be dell implementing this as nvidia limit for these cards is 105c

If the M17X can be done so can the M18X! but the difference here is the M17X had a bios version that didnt have the throttle in it where us M18x users have not, our bios has always had the throttle except in A00 but as this doesnt support 580m we cant test

http://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread-Un...le-Removal

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s=a88...try1199976
Furmark is an application designed to stress the GPU by maximizing power draw well beyond any real world application or game. In some cases, this could lead to slowdown of the graphics card due to hitting over-temperature or over-current protection mechanisms. These protection mechanisms are designed to ensure the safe operation of the graphics card. Using Furmark or other applications to disable these protection mechanisms can result in permanent damage to the graphics card and void the manufacturer's warranty.

[Mumak]

I see.. Sorry, I haven't been involved in these things thus I didn't know the background.
Can you monitor the GPU clocks during benches to see if they drop while throttling? You can either use HWiNFO32/64 Logging option in sensors or check this: http://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-Suppo...s-in-Games

So Ahmed has already patched the M17x BIOS to remove GPU throttling? Ahmed, what have you exactly done to remove it there?

Anyway, the M17x-R2/M15x is a different design (ODM). The M17x-R3/M11x/M14x/M18x are made by Compal so the internal design is quite different here.

[AHMED HOSSAM]

Well , I'm the one who had removed throttle from 17XR3 and i can confirm that this was because the blind flash didn't flash the EC FW .
they flashed A04 ( doesn't have throttle ) from windows ( by flashing from windows , ECFW is updated too ) .
then made blind flash to A08 which support the gpu ( blind flash didn't update EC , so the waorking FW was the A04 on the A08 bios )
to explain more ,,,,,, the A04 didn't support 580M gpu and the A04 hadn't got throttle for it .
Unlike the A08 which has the gpu support in its FW , DSDT , SSDT , MXM ,,,,,,,,,,, but the EC for this bios include controlling the GPU temps too and throttle .
By this solution i was able to run a08 with gpu support on the A04 ECFW which hasn't any control on the gpu and will not read throttle values in DSDT IN ECRAM REGION as it will be replaced

The 18X is totally different from the previous explain .